unlimited multi hulls

[paddlebuilder]

I had WPA the question of multis in the unlimited class and here the response:

"Randy:

Sorry for the delay however Multi Hull SUP's are not allowed in the Unlimited class as of 2012.  We are reviewing the Unlimited class for 2013 and may be amending the rule in the Unlimited class to allow all boards, sizes and otherwise to compete since it should be truly an "Unlimited class", anything goes as long as it does not have a motor or a sail.

Thank you,

Byron Kurt
World Paddle Association
888.WPA.4959"

[corran]

Want a sport to progress?

Take off ALL rules and let it progress naturally. For all "classes"

Corran

[Surferden]

Want a sport to progress?

Take off ALL rules and let it progress naturally. For all "classes"

Corran

Agree, I've shaped a "concept" SUP at 20" wide just to see where our limits are etc etc...more trials need to be done after an adjustment and different fin but initailly it attained 11.3mph on the flat, no wind or current, this may be a false reading from the gps but it did consistanly paddle at 8mph+ with 2" of water in the thing on its first wobbly outing. Before you know it comments came that "rules & regs" defining width, length etc etc will be enforced. This board I'll not reproduce but I can now use the design elements in other boards. Who is it that "Self Appoint" themselves and "Decides" this. Big brands supply the mass market with flat bottomed chunks of eps, some as "Race Boards" pretty as they are, the performance against ski's etc are almost embarrising (not aimed at DW'ers) my point is I now just think why bother, F##k it, I'll stick to making my own boards, make em better and enjoy them and the rules and regs can dictate what everyone else paddles, one design I think you call it..rant over!

[corran]

A long time ago, in a sport far far away....

In the 1960's whitewater kayaking was in its infancy. Boat design was all over the place and changing rapidly. So... rather than letting it develop, some smart ass decided to put rules on them. No kayak could be shorter than 4m, or longer than 5m, narrower than 60cm or wider than 70cm. A few other rules were put in too, but lets stick with that. By 1972, no slalom kayak was ever 1cm longer than 4m or wider than 60cm... by the mid 1970's the kayaks were essentially 3.5m long with these "stick" ends to reach the required length, and they were narrower with little "wings' to hit the required width. In 1996, slalom kayaks, and the skills required to paddle them, were much the same as they had been in 1979. Some changes of course, some improvements, but essentially the same. In 1992, I competed in the Olympics with a team who had medaled in 1972, retired, started training again in 1990 and medaled again in 1992. Once they got their physique up to scratch after 18 years of retirement, the skill sets they had to learn were nominal. In about 2004 there was finally a rule change to 3.5m length. Within 2 years all slalom kayaks were 3.5m and within a year later had the same "stick" ends on them to make them even shorter  than the rules allowed, while respecting the rules. Instead of throwing the rules out, they substituted one random rule with another. Where would slalom be today if in 1960 they had just let the sport develop on its own without tying it down with ball and chain?

In about 1985 whitewater freestyle started to evolve and in 1991 the first world championships appeared. Unlike slalom there were no rules on designs at all. None. ANYTHING GOES. By 1999 the sport, the skills and the equipment were evolving so rapidly that if you took a year vacation and then came back, you'd have no chance of even making top 50%. The boats would look alien, and the skill set required almost completely foreign. In 10 years the kayaks went from round bottom 3.5m long to "surfboard" looking (flat bottoms, fins...) and 2m long. The sport was exciting to be a part of and to watch because it was always changing.

Now freestyle has settled down and the boats evolution is slower (as can be expected). The skill sets are developing but more constant. But the sport found its own way... if rules had been applied (there was an attempt in 1993 to put a minimum length of 3m on the kayaks - can you imagine if that rule had succeeded?) the sport would be lame compared to what it actually is today.

Someone randomly decided that race SUP's should be 12'6". Not 13' or 12' or even the rounded out 4m or 10'... but 12' "SIX"? Why? because one company made a blank that size. How random is that? Then someone else decided that 14' is the max length (really... 14' ... when surf skis are half that length longer again as are sprint kayaks and so on). Then twin hulls were banned... why... because athletes on single hulled boards were getting their asses handed to them. Rather than make their own multi hull, they banned them. Rudders were banned... and all this when the sport was in its infancy. You couldn't have played a stupider hand on the sport.

Can you imagine how lame SUP surfing would be if when the racing rules were made, similar ones were made for surfing. No boards under 9'6", or with multi fin bottoms... (single only)... now we have people on 5 fin boards 6'6" long... SUP surfing is allowed to evolve naturally, while racing has been ball and chained into this abstract (now archaic) set of rules based on a clark foam blank (clark foam is now gone) and short sighted racers lacking the long term vision to deal with temporary equipment shortcomings against some others in order to do whats best overall for the sport.

Let SUP develop naturally. NO RULES. NONE. Take them ALL off and see where the sport goes. The athletes will be faster, the game will get better and there will be real challenge. Then in 15 years when things settle down, if you want to put rules on to stabalize it, go ahead... when it's evolution has already ground to a crawl.

Of course... this is just an opinion

Corran

[pdxmike]

Good opinion.

[Celeste]

The problem with no rules at all, is you get what we use to call "the pipe of the month club".  To be competitive you have to have the latest from the tuner/shaper that is currently on top, and you end up with a small fortune in obsolete equipment that is not competitive and  not legal in other classes.  It can devolve into a money game.  But I can see/want unlimited to be truly unlimited, because rules cause a convergence of ideas

[swordfish1227]

They need to have a truly unlimited class along with the more production classes. You will get trickle down from unlimited into the production boards.


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[corran]

I wasn't talking about unlimited class. I was saying, "open ALL of it". Ditch all the rules for racing SUP, period.

yes, in the early stages you do run into a rapid progression of equipment and obsolete designs, but this settles down very quickly, and the end result is WE ALL have better equipment as a result of the initial technological race.

Corran

[swordfish1227]

That's how you push people out of a sport. You need some sort of entry level class where people can get in and be somewhat competitive with a non custom, reasonably priced board. Sure it's fine to have a few "grand prix" classes that are truly wide open to anything, but that can't be the only thing going. People don't want to go out and get their ass handed to them by someone with deeper pockets.

Which pretty much explains why we only have 4 teams confirmed for the America's Cup with less than a year until the event.

Everything in moderation.




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[808]

I don't think anyone is going away it will just help the sport progress much quicker. These are not sail boats that cost millions it is much more affordable even with having to purchase the latest designs. The sport is growing so rapidly those people will be able to sell their "outdated" designs and get new equipment at fairly reasonable prices compared to most racing. Let the sport regulate it self by superior designs and athletes not what some rule book says you have to work within.  

[peterp]

Sure would be nice and easy if you could bring what you wanted - and everything would settle down over time for sure with boards suited for different disciplines, bodytypes and conditions.

The main thing that I believe makes it workable is that the engine is such a big factor in racing a SUP. We have guys rocking up with all sorts of gear and the guys with engines still fare well or win, so even though you can make it easier for yourself by having the latest, greatest, there are really no outright shortcuts that money can buy. Very different in the auto-game....

The big question is how the most important part of the SUP market will react - will it affect the recreational SUP'ers interest in the sport positively or negatively?

This is the key question as the most important factor is still is to make sure the broader markets interests are looked after.

[Celeste]

I don't think anyone is going away it will just help the sport progress much quicker. These are not sail boats that cost millions it is much more affordable even with having to purchase the latest designs. The sport is growing so rapidly those people will be able to sell their "outdated" designs and get new equipment at fairly reasonable prices compared to most racing. Let the sport regulate it self by superior designs and athletes not what some rule book says you have to work within.  

Then you would be wrong, I would not be able to compete for long in a class that changed that often.  Talk about wanting to make the sport the domain of rich white guys, the dyslexic auto mechanic/massage therapist girl is priced out of competition in the first year. Yes there are boats that cost millions, but there are also sunfish classes as well, and a clear progression to faster classes where things have not changed for years

[jdmotes]

 Did we not learn a thing from windsurfing? KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid); Cause if we don't, we have a very good chance of running 'average Joe' right out of the sport (a lot of short memories out there)...     Paddle on;    JD     

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

As a refugee from windsurfing, I second jdmotes's point. There needs to be a solid, inexpensive entry-level class for people. It may not seem like much money to some in the difference between a 12'6" and a 14" board, but a few hundred dollars is a few hundred dollars. To me, that's a couple of weeks of groceries (three kids).

There are some very nice and relatively inexpensive 12'6" SUPs out there: Bic, Riviera, Boardworks, Amundsen. Let us have our entry-level class. It makes the sport more inclusive. The good thing is that these designs on the whole are built more as touring/racers, and that's probably how most of us are going to use them. When you build a theatre, you gotta have the expensive seats and the cheap seats, but that doesn't mean we all can't see the same show.

So why can't we have it both ways? If you want a truly unlimited class, why not? Let the designs rip boys (and girls)! I look forwards to it. I'll be that dude on the 12'6" half a mile behind, in awe of your creative, interesting, innovative, and crazy designs.

[colas]

Frankly, I think both Corran and Celeste are right. Basically you want 2 classes:
- full unlimited, no rules.
- one design from a non-overpriced manufacturer, so that anybody can compete, rent gear on site, keep the same board for years, buy used boards.

With the current situation you get the worst of these worlds: make the sport progression stall, and still have people pay huge sums of money to get the "best" gear obeying the artificial rules (full carbon, hollow,...)

But anyways, who i am to speak, my fastest board for cruising is a 8'0" :-)