Stand Up Paddle Board Outrigger ( SUPO )

[girlofnoSUP]

Hi loves!  Your comments are so amazing, smart, and lovely, wow!   you are all fantastic!  I haven't been able to reach Dan, emailing him directly in the mean time may be your best bet: 
aquarealm at yahoo dot com
Thanks so much!!  You are a fabulously brilliant group!!  Love!*****

[Aquarealm]

Ahoy Maties! . . . This is Captain Dan, inventor of the SUPO.  My friend girlofnoSUP turned me on to this forum.  So here I am to give you the scoop firsthand.

Keep in mind that this is the very first prototype.  Some folks thought that I should start by building scale models but I knew that a scale model would not tell me what I needed to know so I went all in on a full scale prototype.  PonoBill had it right when he said that I built what was handy to make, not what would work best.  I had to make compromises in order to build it myself by hand.  For example, I needed a 10 inch wide transom for the steering mechanism so the shape is not very fluid dynamic (hence the bad wake).  The amas had to be flat on top so that I could set them on a table saw and cut a slit for the aluminum stringer, etc.  The buoyancy was off because the company I used to CNC cut the foam, Marko Foam, did not cut it to spec.  I designed the hull and pontoons using AKU Shaper software and the file called for 7 inches thick and instead it came out to be only 6 inches.  That's almost 15% loss of buoyancy. I did not want to wait another 3 months (that's how long it took, I won't be using Marko Foam again) so I just ran with what they gave me, which was a mistake in hindsight. 

I appreciate all of your comments and input, much of it is already evident to me.  Some of you fail to have the vision as to the purpose.  I feel that there is a huge, untapped market out there made up of folks that lack the confidence to get out on a standard SUP because they are afraid they would fall over or not be able to turn the thing.  The SUPO is nearly impossible to turn over and it is highly maneuverable.  If the SUP is the bicycle of the sea, what bike to children (beginners) and old people ride?  SUPO is the tricycle of SUP.  And there is the ability to motor or sail it and leave the paddle all together.  What SUP can do that? 

I learned a significant amount of information from this first prototype.  I learned so much that SUPO 2.0 will be quite different; most of what you saw in this first video is already obsolete (inventing is an evolutionary process).  I will keep you posted as to the next incarnation.  Cheers! . . .

[PonoBill]

Looking forward to seeing version 2.0, Dan. I'm not sure the market is huge, but I could see them being popular at lakes and bays. The body weight steering is going to be a challenge in bumpy water since every lurch of the operator will be magnified with steering.

[photofr]

As I was saying above, the steering mechanism is "ingenious", and so glad that you are thinking outside the box.

Just a thought:
I used to teach kayaking, and when I noticed that kids 7, 8 and 9 years old had huge difficulties paddling when the wind was blowing, I came up with the idea to place them all on a surfski (18 feet long at the time, but each having a rudder to control direction).

Here's what I gathered that you could find useful:
A rudder is child's play; every single kid loved it, and it only took them seconds to figure out that pushing right will go RIGHT.

On a different subject, all new comers to the sport of SUP should never worry about falling: it's just water. Either way, it's still amazing that many people do not want to fall (summer or winter). In fact, I know many people who would love the get their feet on a SUPO.

Along those same lines, perhaps a rudder system could be used instead, thus making the entire rig much lighter. The weight of a SUP is a huge deal for a lot of people, even today.

[jumpfrom13k]

Can you attach some sort of sit/chair for fishing purpose?

Make it smaller so it will fit inside the car/suv? The total length has to be less than 9 feet.

I never had a roof rack and I'm not buying one.

I got into SUP since it improves balance and works out those muscles you never really use in stable ground. Not to mention surfing with it.

I think a lot of these people in this forum are simply saying "nice" things about your new invention. Bring this in front of the heavy investors of Sharks Tank and the result might not be the same.

[burchas]

Dan, I too love the concept. I was actually looking for something like that in my early sup days.
The closest thing I found was the Standamaran: http://www.sicmauicustom.com/products/standamaran-deposit
Which is obviously geared towards the performance market rather than entry level board, but people I talked to who
tried that board said it is unusually stable (it's only 28 inch wide), preform very well in most conditions and it has a dual rudder system.

The reason I bring that is that the first thing that came to me when I saw your design was, why didn't he use the amas
as the standing platform? Other question I had  was what would be the size, weight and price of the final product?
These are some of the considerations prevented me form going that route.


To answer your question, if you would ask me today about a sup with a motor and sail, I would recommend the
sipaboard: http://sipaboards.com and the sailpaddle: https://www.sailpaddle.com.
There are other solutions out there, but this combo seems like most natural fit for beginners

It is lightweight, easy to store (even in apartment) and addresses most of the concerns your design is calling for, in a simple and very
affordable package. It also seems to address a bigger market.

one big concern for the beginner market in my mind is board damages, another is, design complexity. I can't remember how many times
I saw postings about dealing with board damages or rudder failure/issues. How much testing (if any) did you put into these issues?

I'm sure you are already familiar with most of these points but it would be interesting to read how did you address it.
I guess we'll have to wait for V2. Looking forward to seeing it.

[yugi]

^ the design concept you're try to describe is Single Points of Failure (SPOF). The trick, when designing, is to eliminate as many as possible. When buying, the trick is to spot them.

[photofr]

Cata vs. Trimaran:
For the catamaran-style SUP, the paddler has to reach way on the outside for each stroke. This isn't so easy for lighter/smaller paddlers.

The Trimaran answers that problem perfectly - and that is actually why I find this concept very appealing. In fact, Paddling a needle-nose board is great on my body (less trauma for sure) and I see the trimaran style to be perfect in that regard.

Having said all of this, it's very true that (unfortunately) beginners and tourists will usually completely trash a rudder system if you don't "baby-seat" them.

[pdxmike]

I think a lot of these people in this forum are simply saying "nice" things about your new invention. Bring this in front of the heavy investors of Sharks Tank and the result might not be the same.

There's some truth in that, but at the same time, with designing new things there's a lot of benefit in delaying being concerned with the issues that matter to investors.  Otherwise, designers/inventors might give up before they got started.  It's like brainstorming sessions--first you get all the ideas out, unfiltered and unjudged, then after they're on the table you come back and evaluate them.

[eastbound]

thinner is less stable, but it means one falls in the water. here there is risk of falling back onto a pontoon or the steering mechanism. that wouldn't go too well.

[starman]

The SUPO thread reminds me of the old Tree Swing cartoon.

I thought this does a good job of describing it;

tree swing (or tyre/tire swing) discussion points

Normally no pointers are needed - people very readily interpret the pictures into their own organisational situation. Here are a few typical 'them and us' reactions just in case:

of marketing - add unnecessary value, add complexity, bells and whistles, embellish, put their own mark onto things, fanciful, impractical, untested, untried, creativity for creativity's sake, subjective not objective, theoretical not practical, clever ideas, think they know what's best for the customers even if the survey feedback is utterly clear, fail to consult with engineering, production and anyone else in the organisation.

of management - cost-conscious, process-led rather than output-aware, failure to understand and interpret real issues and implications, failure to ask questions, committee decisions produce impractical solutions, removed from reality, detached from customers and front-line staff, failure to consult with users and functional departments.

of engineering - technical interpretation rather than practical, unconcerned with aesthetics and ergonomics, consideration stops after the 'can we build it?' stage, lack of consultation with specifiers and user representatives, meets specification but doesn't work properly, inappropriate materials and absence of styling.

of manufacturing - production specification over-rides design considerations, a law unto themselves, you get what you're given, any colour you like as long as it's black, detached from users, specifiers, designers, and everyone else except other manufacturing staff, unconcerned with usability or functionality, certainly unconcerned with bells and whistles and added value, totally focused on production efficiency, cost and time, lack of liaison with all other departments.

of maintenance - necessity is the mother of invention, very big tool-boxes, huge stocks of parts and ancillaries, materials, nuts, bolts and all other fixings known to man, happy to work all hours, especially evenings, weekends and public holidays at treble-time-and-a-half with days off in lieu, never consult with specifiers or customer specifications, enjoy quick-fixes, sticky-tape, mastic, bending bracketry, planks of wood and extended tea-breaks, never liaise with any other departments and think management are all useless idiots who can't even change a plug.

of customers - if only we'd listened, understood, and checked with them once in a while.....

[pdxmike]

thinner is less stable, but it means one falls in the water. here there is risk of falling back onto a pontoon or the steering mechanism. that wouldn't go too well.

It's actually scary to look at the video again after that comment.  It's close enough you could hit your head, or if you fell sideways, have the pontoon plow into your head as you surfaced.  It could bring a danger of downwinding (getting whacked with your board as you surface) into flatwater.

Once an advertising guy told me that to judge if an ad will work, you have to know specific people who'd respond well to it.  You can't just say, "We're targeting male teenagers with this ad, and they'll respond to the edgy music."  You have to be able to say, "My nephew Jason would love this ad".  It seems the same would be true of products.  (PT Cruiser was aimed at young car buyers, but nobody young ever bought one.)  Personally, I can't think of anyone who'd want this. 

On the other hand, I still love seeing it, and would love to see a few out in the water, along with other unique craft that I might have no interest in myself.  I actually think of some tweaked variation of this working for someone experienced who has some unique reason why it would make sense for them, versus a beginner. (Cost alone would exclude most beginners anyway.) Although again I don't know who that person is, personally.  But they could be out there.

[photofr]

Safety has to be considered, of course... but don't you guys think you are being a little too harsh? You can't be serious.

After all, sailboats and catamarans are nothing more than a danger trap in open ocean: there are sharp objects every where, and cables to slice you up. This doesn't make them less desirable, and sailing is still a multi-million dollar sport.

Like I said: I'd make a few modifications to meet my needs, but I would certainly buy one if it were affordable. It may just end up being a super versatile craft for touring lakes and open ocean in any conditions. I won't even mention how much fun I could have with this thing with photography... not to mention that I could turn it into a SUP or a Outrigger Canoe or a tandem.

[pdxmike]

photo--I think it's a valid thought about hitting something when falling, especially since the idea is it's targeted at people who are averse to falling, and also because the design creates a problem that standard boards with their lack of projections don't have. 


If you'd want one if it had a few modifications, especially for photography,  then you're exactly the person I was thinking of when I mentioned that some tweaked variation could work for someone experienced who had a unique reason for why it would make sense for them.  And for someone like you, the falling thing might go away as an issue.

[blackeye]

Cata vs. Trimaran:
For the catamaran-style SUP, the paddler has to reach way on the outside for each stroke.

Not if the hulls are so far apart you could paddle between them. And it would be really super-stable and a bear to turn.